Frost and the Fall Garden - Vegetable Gardener カルティエウォッチ

Frost and the Fall Garden

comments (3) September 21st, 2009

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Ruth Ruth Dobsevage, member
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Even though the vines are dead or dying, pumpkins can stay in the field well past frost.
Leeks (in the background) are at their best in fall weather, but peppers will succumb to even a touch of frost. Harvest them when frost threatens.
Tomatoes are not frost hardy, so harvest them early. Green tomatoes will ripen slowly in a dry, cool part of the house; dont refrigerate them.
Even though the vines are dead or dying, pumpkins can stay in the field well past frost.Click To Enlarge

Even though the vines are dead or dying, pumpkins can stay in the field well past frost.

Photo: Ruth Dobsevage

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It's September. Kids return to school, the sun is lower in the sky, the nights grow nippy. There's a crispness to the air, and if you look carefully, you'll catch the tinges of color in the New England swamplands. Ordinary folk watch football. Gardeners go on frost watch.

If you're new to gardening, you may not be aware that frost can wipe out most of your veggies. So here are some things you should know about frost and how to protect your garden against it, or at least forestall its effects.

  What is frost, and what does it mean for your garden?
Ice crystals form at temperatures below 32°F, when water vapor condenses out of the air and settles on a cool surface, such as your garden beds or garden plants. Frost is just a frozen form of dew, and it damages plants by freezing the water inside the plant cells, which then burst and die.

A light frost can occur at 30-32°F. There's a touch of white on the ground, but it's short-lived; as soon as the sun hits it, it's gone, and all but the most frost-sensitive plants will survive. At lower temperatures, a killing frost can occur, and you can pretty much say good-bye to most of your annual flowers and most vegetables.
The Farmer’s Almanac can tell you the average killing frost date for your area (here in Connecticut, it's October 10), and that will give you a general ideal of what to expect. But it won't help you much with anticipating light frosts. You also have to know your microclimate. A low-lying area may be covered in frost, while just uphill a bit everything is fine.

As we all know, weather can be quirky. As the days get shorter, I check the forecasts frequently, and get a sense of things as I walk the dog after work. Is the sky cloudless and the wind minimal? Is there a chill in the air? Does it smell like frost? If so, there's work to be done.

When frost threatens
Crops differ in their susceptibility to frost, and there are steps you can take to extend the season. These maneuvers are worthwhile, because typically a frost is followed by Indian summer: and its warm, sunny weather before things really chill down.

If a light frost is predicted, I cover my frost-sensitive crops with assorted bedsheets, blankets, and tarps and hope for the best. The next morning, anticipating rising temperatures, I remove the coverings.

If you don't cover your plants and frost hits them, you can sometimes save them by hosing off the frost early in the morning before the sun hits them.

What to harvest when
If you're like me, you'll want to keep your garden going as long as you can. So you won't want to put your garden to bed until it becomes absolutely necessary.

The measures described above work for a while, but at a certain point, enough is enough. Even if the plants are alive, they are no longer actively producing. When a hard frost is imminent, I bow to the inevitable. After thanking the garden (my quiet, but essential annual ritual), I harvest all remaining tomatoes (ripe or not), cucumbers, hot peppers, sweet peppers, eggplant, beans, and basil, along with any frost-sensitive flowers I’d like to enjoy a bit longer in a vase—or in a salad.

I don’t usually harvest the winter squash and pumpkins yet, as these survive just fine in the field even if the vines die. Leeks, scallions, beets, and carrots are in no danger from frost either, and members of the cabbage family—brussels sprouts, broccoli, and kale—actually improve in flavor with frost. These remain flavorful even into winter most years. Parsley also does well until Thanksgiving and sometimes beyond, as do sage and chives.

A quick guide to frost hardiness
Frost sensitive
(Harvest these plants when the temperature dips to 32°F or less)
Somewhat frost hardy
(These crops may survive temperatures as low as 28°F)
Very frost hardy
(Don't rush to harvest these; they'll be fine at 28° or colder)
Hot peppers
Sweet peppers
Summer squash
Brussels sprouts
Winter squash

It's fall garden cleanup time More on fall gardening:

Plant a Green Manure or a Cover Crop This Fall
• It's Fall Garden Cleanup Time
• Plant a Second Crop for a Bountiful Fall Harvest
• Cold Frame Gardening
• Topping Brussels Sprouts
Video: Fall Vegetable Garden 



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Posted: 7:40 am on December 6th
lostmountainman writes: We live at 2000 ft. in elevation and it often does not frost until mid-late November, but in the local lowlands, which is where the local TV forecasts focus, it will frost in early-mid October. There is a website that gives very specific forecasts from the National Weather Service and helps us prepare the garden for a frost (and the hose bibs for a freeze). The link to the main site is:
Enter your city and State or your Zip Code and you will get the general forecast for your area. Zoom in on the map until you see the named road system and see how close the location is to your home (or if you know the GPS coordinates you can enter them). Place the mouse pointer on the map and hold the left mouse button down and drag the map to where you want to locate. Place the pointer where you want it and double click and you will place the + with the red shaded square close to your home (the map will zoom out to the default setting automatically). Zoom in again to check the location. If you are close but want to get closer repeat the process. If the location that you want is within the shaded red square it will not relocate. If that happens locate the mouse pointer somewhere a little bit away from where you want to be and double click to move the red square. Then zoom in again and place the pointer where you want to locate and double click and it should put the + as close to the desired location as the system will allow.
I find that the 24 hour forecast is very accurate, and the 48 hour forecast about 80% accurate. After that things can change significantly. The system usually predicts the nighttime low to within a degree of the readings from our outdoor digital thermometers. The snowfall depth predictions are generally very accurate as well, which helps us protect the plants that can be crushed by a heavy snowfall.
Save the link in your "Favorites" folder and you can return as often as you like to check the coming forecast and any changes that develop.
Posted: 2:55 pm on September 29th
pano2nr writes: Wow! Thanks! This is exactly the information i needed..tonight, here in southeastern MI. Thanks, thanks, thanks!!!
Posted: 8:04 pm on September 30th
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Is there a difference between Kansas City strip and New York strip?

up vote 15 down vote favorite

Wikipedia gives the impression that Kansas City strip refers to the same cut as New York strip. Are they really the same cuts? If so, which name is more "authentic"? And if not, what's the difference between them?

share|improve this question
Ha! Sitting here at dinner eating a barbecued New York Strip Steak for dinner and my husband says....I'd like to try a Kansas City Strip steak. Like the one that our Grandson gets at Wood Ranch. I said it is the same steak. He says no. I say, let's check the Internet. Whoooowho, I'm right. For once. LOL. – user40131 Oct 19 '15 at 2:24

15 Answers 15

active oldest votes
up vote 18 down vote accepted

The Kansas City Strip and the New York Strip refer to the same cut of meat. Apparently restaurants in New York City in the 1930's decided they couldn't sell a fancy steak named after Kansas City (where the stockyards and slaughterhouses were located). So, they just started calling it a New York Strip.

If you want a steak renamed by a egotistical chef, order the New York Strip. If you want a steak named for the cut of beef originally selected by butchers working next to the stockyards, order the Kansas City Strip.

share|improve this answer
New York Strip seems to definitely be the name that has taken off though, I'd never even heard the term "KC Strip" - and I grew up in Texas and currently live in Utah - far from the east coast. – Ryan Elkins Feb 19 '11 at 15:03
I'd always assumed that though both were the same cut, the NY Strip included how that cut was prepared; i.e. with Garlic, Red Wine Vinegar, Worcestershire sauce and Italian seasoning (oregano, rosemary, thyme, basil, and sometimes marjoram). Is there any truth to that? (I guess it's slightly implied by your last paragraph's "chef vs. butcher" comment) – JohnLBevan Aug 26 '15 at 18:44
up vote 13 down vote

Wikipedia is correct about two things:

  • Both the Kansas City strip and New York strip are literally the same thing as a "strip steak";
  • The particular cut of meat used is the short loin, and does not have any tenderloin.

However, sources do not tend to agree on whether or not the strip steak includes a bone. For example:

  • Gourmet Sleuth's Guide to Beef Cuts says that a strip steak can be either bone-in or boneless, but that a NY strip (or KC strip) is boneless. It also calls out the "shell steak" as being bone-in.

  • On the other hand, the Cook's Thesaurus singles out the shell steak as being the boneless version (implying that NY strip and KC strip are bone-in).

  • Most sources will equate the strip steak to a club steak (as Wikipedia does), but some sources use the term to refer to boneless cuts, whereas others will explicitly call this a "boneless club steak" or "hotel-style steak".

  • You also have to be really careful with what Wikipedia considers to be the "international" name - club steak - because it is used interchangeably with the Delmonico Steak (which refers to at least 3 different cuts), and according to some, the label "club steak" may even get slapped on a rib steak.

The best way to think about this is probably the following:

The terms New York strip, Kansas City strip, or strip steak can all be applied to any cut of meat that is solely from the short loin, bone-in or boneless; however, you are likely to notice subtle differences from one butcher or steakhouse to the next, regardless of the specific name used, due to inconsistent interpretations.

share|improve this answer
Funny to me as a Brit that there is so much diversity on the cut. Whilst you can get a butcher to cut what you like, you have to look very hard to find a steak in a restaurant called anything other than rump, sirloin, t-bone or fillet. [braising/chuck steak is also about, but that is different] – Orbling Feb 19 '11 at 0:17
@Orbling: Americans love their beef and their choices. Actually, in Canada we have completely different terminology for a lot of the cuts, sort of a weird hybrid of American and British. – Aaronut Feb 19 '11 at 1:16
I'm sure the English love their beef too, as indeed Canadians no doubt do. Just we do not really have a culture left of choosing non-standard cuts; almost everyone buys in supermarkets, pre-pack stuff, variety is rare - butcher shops are rarer still. – Orbling Feb 19 '11 at 1:18
@Orbling: Indeed, butcher shops are rare here, and so is quality meat. It's a shame, really. – configurator Feb 19 '11 at 1:29
up vote 4 down vote

I live in Kansas City. I am a professional caterer, BBQ judge and food consultant. There is ZERO difference. They are exactly the same cut of meat. A steak cut from the short loin. They were universally called "Kansas City strips" until Delmonico's restaurant in NYC decided some time in the 30's to call it a "New York strip" on their menu.

That is all there is to the story.

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up vote 3 down vote

According to the USDA, these names are branding only. The USDA defines steaks of the loin with a few names. Legally, either steak can be from any of the final four of these, but traditionally, both are from the final two.

  • Loin, Porterhouse Steak
  • Loin, T-Bone Steak
  • Loin, Strip Loin Steak, Bone-In
  • Loin, Strip Loin Steak, Center Cut, Bone-In
  • Loin, Strip Loin Steak, Boneless
  • Loin, Strip Loin Steak, Center-Cut, Boneless

It is futile to try and define a difference between the two steaks when every retailer and restaurant is free to choose from any of four cuts for either steak.

share|improve this answer
up vote 2 down vote

I agree with "user19435" who referenced their great grandfather butcher:

A Kansas City Strip Steak has a small portion of the bone (top corner of the "T") still attached as well as a thin strip of fat. The New York Strip steak is completely trimmed off the bone and doesn't have the tail fat. Otherwise they are same "strip" of short loin.

This is much more consistently the case at an actual butcher counter. In most supermarkets (ie Walmart, IGA, Costco) almost everything is trimmed and packaged without the bone.

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up vote 1 down vote

My understanding of the difference has to do with the shipping weight. Shipping via rail cars back in the early 1900's and "iceing" down the beef from the midwest was cheaper by removing the bone..hence the New York strip. Locally in the midwest, they left the bone in and referred to it as the Kansas City strip.

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up vote 1 down vote

I actually worked in Oklahoma in a restaurant as a cook and the difference is nothing. The two cuts are the same.

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up vote 1 down vote

Same exact cut of meat. I used to work in a meat market. There is zero difference, other than New Yorkers thinking it's "their" steak, when the specific cut originated in Kansas City.

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up vote 1 down vote

I am from Kansas. I lived in San Diego for about twenty years and out there it seemed like the meat cutters called the bone in version a New York, and the boneless version a K.C. Definitely the same cut of beef though. Living back in K.S now, I know crazy, my wife came home with cuts that were labeled bone in K.C. strips. I said thats a New York not a K.C.

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up vote 0 down vote

It is fairly easy to find a New York strip steak in Kansas with all the chain eateries there, though difficult to find in the single or multiple local restraunts. It is quite difficult to find a KC strip steak away from the Kansas area. Did find a place in Long Beach, Washington serving KC strip steaks a while back though. Both steaks are exactly the same cut of beef.


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up vote 0 down vote

In OK, If you buy it at WalMart it's a NY, if you buy it at the IGA it's a KC. Identical - never seen one on the bone.

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up vote -1 down vote

KC Strip is a NY with the bone left attached...

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Really? I've found plenty of references to boneless Kansas City strips and bone-in New York strips. – Jefromi Apr 1 '13 at 15:26
up vote -1 down vote

It's a Kansas City strip steak. The stockyards were located in Kansas City, not New York, and like the 1st poster said it was hard to convince the yanks in New York that the cut was good. NY never had stockyards. If a restaurant says New York instead of Kansas City strip they are just a bunch of egotists that probably went to some high brow culinary school. In the 1970s the state of New York made a PR effort to try and say Kansas City was not a cowtown and that New York was the official name for the club cut steak.

The bone is a matter of quality. The prime cuts of a KC strip will be boneless, especially the center cuts; the choice or select will generally have a bone in.

I know this because my great grandfather and his brothers all worked in the stockyards in downtown Kansas City, and my grandfather was a butcher. The art of butchering has been handed down through the generations.

share|improve this answer
I have no idea what all the ranting about barbecue has to do with the difference (or lack thereof) between two cuts of beef. It seems like, discarding the tangents, you're not saying much more than what the accepted answer said two years ago. But since we're a community-edited site, I'm going to go ahead and edit your answer down to the parts that actually answer the question. (We're also a Q&A site - we expect that answers actually answer the question. See the tour page for a quick explanation.) – Jefromi May 31 '13 at 6:32
With respect to the content of your answer: do you have some kind of citation for the claim that the state of New York made a PR effort to rebrand steaks? It sounds like the kind of thing that would just be voluntary rebranding among butchers, grocery stores, food distributors, and restaurants. I don't see why the government would've been involved, nor why it would have been just in New York. Anywhere in the US, if someone found that calling it a New York strip steak made it sell better, they'd do it. – Jefromi May 31 '13 at 6:38
up vote -1 down vote

A Kansas City Strip Steak is different from a New York Strip Steak, my great grandfather was a meat cutter and Grocer from Germany and he knew. A Kansas City Strip Steak has the tail on it that curves around with the thin strip of fat that flavors the meat when it is cooked/flame grilled. Also, it has part of the T Bone still attached. The New York Strip steak doesn't have the tail of thin fat nor does it have the partial bone attachment. It seems New Yorkers are spoiled and don't want to be bothered with removing the meat from the bone or have any fat associated with their meat, and they don't have the patience for eating around it either.

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up vote -2 down vote

KC is a NY with partial bone and small strip of fat for flavor. You can still find hi scale aged steakhouse restaurants that sell both cuts. Its that simple. However, if your KC or NY strip is not served as part of a Porterhouse, you're just 'doing it wrong' anyway. ;) ..and always eat the filet first when its fresh out of kitchen. ENJOY!

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